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Garrison Lovely Scott Alexander Prospera Debate

The following are arguments made by both Scott and Garrison. Do you agree with them?

48 people have given 823 responses

If companies invest because of legal protections, with legal recourse, it is reasonable to use said recourse if those protections are ignored.

888

It is beneficial to poor or corrupt nations to be able to make contracts they will be forced to be bound by.

888

Corporations should not sue nations that break deals with them.

838

A legitimate enough government of Honduras voluntarily signed onto this agreement and so should abide by it.

808

"investment courts are a useful vehicle to prevent countries from inviting international investment, then stealing it as soon as it materializes"

7811

It is bad to have an international court which regularly sues developing nations

7712

"Silicon Valley billionaires are backing a project that is trying to bankrupt a poor country for reneging on a deal struck with people who have been indicted on corruption, drug trafficking, and weapons charges"

7417

Prospéra had taken advantage of Honduras.

7110

"[Prospéra] has said many times that the second the socialists agree to leave them in peace, they will drop their suit"

704

Próspera, a special economic zone project in Honduras, is seeking $10.8 billion in arbitration from the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID).

680

"Democratic elections were then held (which the socialists boycotted), producing the government that approved Prospera. 78% of Congress approved the law to create charter cities with an explicit guarantee that they would protect it for fifty years"

6711

"The arbitrators can't actually seize the budget of Honduras, but countries that follow the international treaties that established the international court will now be allowed to take whatever Honduran government money is in their countries in order to pay back their investors"

630

Charter cities (cities exempt from national taxes/laws, seeking internal investment/immigration) are colonialist

608

"The socialists have instead announced that they have no obligation to follow any treaties or international law, and they will continue seizing these 9 projects (including Prospera)"

577

"[Scott is] too credulous toward the Prospera side"

548

"In 2009, the socialist president [of Honduras] was couped by the military after he refused to comply with a Supreme Court order not to try to overstay his term limits"

508

Garrison is not obliged to delete the thread since he is reporting what others say

4618

It is relevant whether Prospéra is a good idea for Honduras whether they should be allowed to sue in this court.

4632

Próspera is incorporated in Delaware and has received support from the US ambassador to Honduras and the State Department.

460

"if you're trying to do novel, controversial deals that undermine traditional notions of sovereignty with sketchy regimes and the deal backfires, seems like a risk you were consciously running"

4330

That the court packing was unusually bad in this case, but not others in recent Honduran history seems dubious.

428

"it's kinda weird to trust employees at Prospera over [investigative journalists]"

4126

"Xiomara Castro (current socialist president of Honduras) is in the news now for revelations that her campaign ... took donations from drug traffickers"

404

"[Foreign Direct Investment] doesn't help places with shitty institutions"

3819

The sum that Próspera seeks is unreasonably high.

3523

The pushback Lovely received can be described as "brigading"

3220

The Government which created the Honduran legal exemptions with Próspera is less legitimate than the one attempting to repeal it.

2918

The current Honduran Government, led by the wife of the 2009 coupled president who attempted to outstay his term limit is not more legimate than the 2013 elected Government led by a man lated indicted for drug and gun trafficking.

2412

A precursor to the economic zone law (ZEDE) was struck down by judges who were then illegally replaced, suggesting that the ZEDE law would have been found to be constitutionally illegitimate also.

248

The 2009 Honduran Government packing the courts was very bad and large legislation passed as a result is illegimate.

229

"there's evidence that Prospera misrepresented itself intentionally on multiple occasions"

2020

The 2009 Social president deserved to be couped.

107